Israel’s Occupation and Wars Have Fueled Resistance Movements

In a report from Beirut, Rima Majed examines Israel’s escalating attacks on Lebanon and how Israel’s actions in the region have fueled resistance movements. “Since October last year, we’ve realized … our lives do not have a meaning in this broader international order. We are numbers. Our bodies are disposable,” says Majed. “All we keep hearing is that Israel has the right to self-defense. We never hear about the right of Palestinians to self-defense, or the right of Lebanese to self-defense.”

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.

We continue to look at Israel’s intensifying war on Lebanon as Israel has launched its heaviest bombardment to date on Beirut and the city’s southern suburbs. Earlier today, Israeli war planes bombed a fire station in southern Lebanon, killing at least eight firefighters. Israel’s assault has now displaced 1.2 million people in Lebanon.

In Beirut, we’re joined by Rima Majed. She’s an assistant professor of sociology at the American University of Beirut.

Professor Majed, thanks so much for joining us as we continue our discussion with you, bringing folks Part 2. I wanted to ask you about the U.S. response since last October 7th, since Hamas’s attack on Israel, and then Israel began the slaughter in Gaza, and now, finally, expanding to Lebanon.

RIMA MAJED: I mean, the U.S. response has been not surprising, but it’s been really, really — I mean, since October last year, I think if we — we’ve realized something very clear, is that our lives do not have a meaning in this broader international order. We are numbers. Our bodies are disposable. It seems like no one really cares. All we hear, all we keep hearing is that Israel has the right to self-defense. We never hear about the right of Palestinians to self-defense or the right of Lebanese to self-defense. It’s all framed as if this all started on October 7. What about the occupation that existed before, this Israeli settlements around Gaza that are illegal settlements? What about the situation in Gaza that was the situation of a siege? Gaza is described as an open-air prison. What about all the breaches of 1701 in Lebanon since 2006? I mean, there are Israeli drones over our heads all the time. We never hear about this. We don’t have a right to self-defense? Is this only a right for the Zionist state? This is really — this really tells us — I mean, this highlights the hypocrisy of this world order that is always standing on the side of the powerful and never on the side of justice.

And in that sense, I feel our wars — I mean, in my own life, I’ve lived more than five wars by now. Our wars never end. Our wars are only put on hold until the next round starts. And these wars will not stop as long as there is occupation, as long as there’s a settler-colonial entity that is expanding, as long as there is no justice, no right to return, no reparation. It will not end. Every kind of injustice of this scale will create its own resistance, whether it’s Islamic or secular or leftist or nationalist or whatever flavor it takes. Resistance will continue because oppression is so big. I mean, this round of war is leaving generations with anger that is unimaginable. Do we think that this is how this is going to end? You can end an organization, but you cannot end a resistance. Is this going to create peace? It can never create peace. There’s no peace, and there’s — you know, we’re unable to really talk about peace without talking about an end to occupation, and justice and reparation for the millions of people by now who have paid an immense price for these wars and this — you know, this genocidal spree that’s unfolded in the region since October last year.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the history of Hezbollah and then the assassination of Hassan Nasrallah?

RIMA MAJED: Sure. Hezbollah is an organization that was created in 1982 as a result of the Israeli invasion that reached Beirut back then. It is an organization that is backed and armed and funded by Iran. It’s an organization that has, throughout the — I mean, until 2000, it was not part of the political life in Lebanon. It never participated in any of the governments. It was only a resistance movement. But after the liberation of Lebanon in 2000, Hezbollah became also a political party that is involved in Lebanese politics and government. And since then, it’s been involved also in regional wars. Unfortunately, Hezbollah participated in the war in Syria against the uprising, in defense of the Assad regime. But, I mean, regardless of — and it’s a political party that has also participated in, you know, the counterrevolution, if you will, in 2019, when the Lebanese people rose against the sectarian neoliberal state. But Hezbollah has kept both wings. It’s a political organization, but it’s also a resistance movement.

And I think this is very important for people to understand, that, of course, I mean, there are a lot of opposition, there’s opposition, there’s people who support, but regardless of, you know, all of this history that is, I acknowledge, very complicated and not an easy one to accept, at this moment our country is being bombed and invaded by, you know, an entity that is expansionist, that is — and this is not the first time — that has clearly threatened to occupy parts of our land. And in that sense, what I’m calling resistance is not just Hezbollah. It’s also — I’m talking about all these people from villages, you know, in the south, on the border, that are defending their land, that are defending their villages, and that happened to be at this point in history, you know, a part of this movement, because this is where the funding and the arming is. Previously, these same people and these same families were part of other movements that were not Hezbollah and that had different political leanings. And this is why I’m saying, I mean, eradicating Hezbollah, you know, is one thing, and I don’t know if it’s even possible, but eradicating the resistance is impossible. These are people who have been resisting for decades and that will continue to resist, because this is their homeland.

AMY GOODMAN: Then, the latest news that Hezbollah has lost contact with one of its senior leaders, Hashem Safieddine, who was believed to be the possible successor to Nasrallah, his cousin — they haven’t heard from him since Friday — what effect does this have on the Lebanese people? And how unified or divided are the Lebanese people around Hezbollah?

RIMA MAJED: The killing of Nasrallah was definitely a major blow for Hezbollah. It’s an organization, of course, that has a hierarchy and that can function without its leader, but Nasrallah was a very charismatic leader that was able to keep up the morale of the people and that was able to attract a lot of people. Even those who disagreed with the party politically were, you know, sympathetic to this very charismatic leader. So, the killing of Nasrallah was a major blow. And the list of assassinations that we’ve seen before the killing of Nasrallah and after the killing of Nasrallah, with news now about Safieddine probably being also assassinated, are definitely going to be a major problem for Hezbollah and its leadership to be able to recreate itself and continue and to fill the void of of Nasrallah. Again, even with that — and it seems like the assassinations will not stop anytime soon. It seems Israel is determined on continuing.

But I think Hezbollah is a party that is also able — is malleable enough and is able to reorganize itself. Maybe it needs some time, but it will reorganize itself in a new way, in a different way. But again, I insist that Hezbollah, after all, is a party that is linked to a regional force — that is, Iran — that is funded by it and that is armed by it. It happens to be the one leading the resistance at this point in history. However, if Hezbollah continues or not, as long as there will be occupation, as long as there will be a real threat on our borders, there will always be some kind of resistance in one way or the other.

AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Rima Majed, what do you think the world community needs to do? Yesterday, the French President Macron announced that France is cutting off weapons to Israel. The U.S. has not gone this route at that point, though Biden says he supports a ceasefire. What are your thoughts on the power of the international community and the United Nations at this point?

RIMA MAJED: Yeah. Unfortunately, I mean, the United Nations has proven yet again to be, you know, an institution that has no real powers when it comes to stopping the U.S. or Israel. Yes, I think stopping armament of Israel is very important. I mean, this is massive. We’re talking about billions of dollars that are being in the arms industry, while, you know, we send so much arms and we make so much money out of the arms industry, and what we receive in humanitarian aid is just peanuts out of this whole industry. So, that’s definitely very, very important.

But I think also we need a complete shift. And I don’t really have hope or trust in states to do this, but we need more pressure from below. We need people to mobilize more, to pressure their governments to realize that people in this region are not just numbers. And it’s not — I mean, we’ve become, over the past year, material to consume. Our dead bodies are eradicated. Cities have become just images that people watch and then carry on with their everyday life. But life here is being drastically changed and, you know, leaving — you know, this is setting a precedent, I think, of an international community that has — I mean, that has watched a genocide, televised, unfold over a full year with no real pressure to stop it. This is very, very alarming, not just for the people of Palestine and Lebanon, but this is very alarming for the whole world. This is really very terrifying. We’re going into an era where we can watch genocides on TV, and it’s just OK. So, I think this is — this should be a political cause for everyone around the world that is really — you know, that is really concerned about life on this planet.

AMY GOODMAN: Finally, your own situation, where you did a survey of your students, 25 of them. Twenty of them have been displaced. Four of them have had their homes demolished. Where you see Lebanon going right now, already broken from the, what, worst nonnuclear disaster in history, the port explosion, and all that has transpired in the politics of Lebanon since then?

RIMA MAJED: Lebanon is at a very, very dark point in history at this — I mean, just before coming here, I had a student send me an email saying she won’t be able to attend class because her father-in-law was killed yesterday in a bomb, and they have to figure out the burial today. So, we are really talking about a society that is being decimated in many ways. We’re seeing again another wave of migration, internal displacement. So, this is going to have huge effects that we will need decades to deal with the effects of this war and all the previous crises in Lebanon.

But one thing that gives me hope is that even within such a very difficult situation, people still find ways to make life. People still, you know, go for a stroll by the sea. People still run to help each other. And this is very, very important. Of course, I say this not to romanticize. I’m very aware that there’s also a lot of social tension. There’s a lot of sectarian tension that is growing. Displacement is always, you know, an issue for people in a society that is already divided. But my hope is that — I mean, social tension alone does not create civil war. So, I don’t think that we can slip into a civil war after this, although many people are talking about this. I just want to remind everyone that wars are political decisions, and if we go from this war to a civil war, that will be a decision that would need arms and leaders and funding. So, social tension can be contained in a lot of ways, and there are already a lot of initiatives in that direction.

AMY GOODMAN: Rima Majed, I want to thank you for being with us, assistant professor of sociology at the Sociology, Anthropology and Media Studies Department at the American University of Beirut, speaking to us from Beirut. To see Part 1 of our discussion, go to democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us.