Beirut-Based Journalist: “It Is Really Unclear What the Endgame for Israel Is”

Israel is further escalating its war on Lebanon, carrying out its heaviest airstrikes so far on Beirut overnight in the densely populated southern suburbs. Lebanon’s health minister said Thursday at least 2,000 people have been killed since the start of the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, including at least 127 children, most of them in the past two weeks. More than 1.2 million Lebanese have been displaced. Meanwhile, Beirut hospitals are overwhelmed by a surge in casualties as attacks intensify, and the World Health Organization says Israel’s attacks killed 28 health workers in just one 24-hour span and made it impossible for the WHO to deliver a large shipment of trauma and medical supplies to Beirut. This comes as the Israeli army appears to be preparing for a deeper ground incursion into southern Lebanon. As tensions continue to escalate in the region, we speak with Kareem Chehayeb in Beirut, reporting for the Associated Press, who says Lebanon is getting used to “the new normal” of daily Israeli airstrikes on the capital, mass displacement and ongoing fighting between Israel and Hezbollah forces in the south. “Things are moving at a very, very fast pace … and it is really unclear what the endgame for Israel is.”

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show in Lebanon, where Israel carried out its heaviest airstrikes so far in Beirut with a reported series of 10 massive strikes overnight in the densely populated southern suburbs. Lebanon’s health minister said Thursday at least 2,000 people have been killed since the start of the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, including at least 127 children, most of them in the past two weeks.

Lebanon’s state-run national news agency is also reporting Israeli airstrikes damaged the main border crossing between Lebanon and Syria, closing the main road used by tens of thousands to flee Israel’s attacks on Lebanon. More than 1.2 million Lebanese have now been displaced.

Meanwhile, Beirut hospitals are overwhelmed. This is Dr. Jihad Saadeh, general director of Rafik al-Hariri Hospital, largest Lebanese public hospital.

DR. JIHAD SAADEH: [translated] The hardest thing I’ve seen was when a father was searching for his son. In the end, we found out that his son was with us, but only in pieces.

AMY GOODMAN: On Thursday, the World Health Organization director Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said Israeli attacks had made it impossible to deliver a large shipment of trauma and medical supplies to Beirut. He said Israeli strikes killed 28 health workers in just one 24-hour period, while shuttering dozens of hospitals and clinics. At least 50 paramedics have been killed in Lebanon over the past two weeks.

This comes as the U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon told Al Jazeera the Israeli army has asked its troops to leave their positions close to the border amidst a potential escalation of the Israeli ground incursion.

Iran’s Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi arrived in Beirut today and met with Lebanese caretaker Prime Minister Najib Mikati, just hours after Israeli airstrikes hit an area near the airport where he landed.

A Pentagon spokesperson said Thursday U.S. military leaders are consulting with their Israeli counterparts on a response to Iran’s ballistic missile attack earlier this week on Israeli military bases and other security sites.

SABRINA SINGH: We continue to engage the Israelis, you know, very frequently. We are certainly talking to them about their response. But what their response might be, I’m just not going to speculate further on.

AMY GOODMAN: At the White House, President Biden acknowledged he had spoken with Israeli leaders. He has said he does not support Israel attacking Iran’s nuclear sites, but discussed possible attacks on Iran’s oil infrastructure.

REPORTER: Mr. President, would you support Israel striking Iran’s oil facilities, sir?

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: We’re discussing that. I think — I think that would be a little — anyway.

AMY GOODMAN: Biden’s comment rattled energy markets, causing an immediate spike in crude oil prices.

Meanwhile, Iran has threatened an “unconventional response” to any Israeli retaliation, including attacks targeting Israeli infrastructure. Earlier today, Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei led prayers in Tehran for the first time in nearly five years as he commemorated Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, who was assassinated by Israel last week in Lebanon. Khamanei called on Muslim leaders to band together to confront Israel.

As tensions continue to escalate in the region, we go to Beirut, Lebanon. We’re joined by Kareem Chehayeb. He is reporting on Lebanon, Syria and Iraq for the Associated Press.

Thank you so much for being with us, Kareem. Can you explain the situation on the ground after this night of massive air attacks by Israel?

KAREEM CHEHAYEB: So, it’s become next to normal that Israel is conducting a series of airstrikes, roughly about a dozen, mostly in the southern Beirut suburbs, which has a lot of people in it still. A large number of people are evacuating, but there are still people who live there. The strikes are getting far more intense, particularly last night. We heard a strike that, you know, had some sort of — numerous explosions that happened after that, as well.

Meanwhile, every day the Israeli military is calling on the immediate evacuation of about another dozen or so towns from the south. So, it’s been several days where they’ve been doing that. There’s been a few dozen towns, and medical workers have been having a very hard time operating there. The Lebanese Red Cross, while relocating wounded people from the south, you know, were caught in an Israeli airstrike where four of their volunteers were wounded, and a Lebanese soldier was killed in that evacuation operation. And, you know, there are reports now that one of the most important hospitals in the southeast is closing its doors because of a strike that hit very close to the hospital.

So, this appears to becoming the new normal in this current situation. You know, there’s the ground incursion in the south, where Hezbollah and the Israeli military are clashing in border towns and along the border. Israel is calling for more and more immediate evacuations from southern Lebanon, very far north into the country. And it appears that, you know, strikes overnight in the southern suburbs are going to continue. And now with the airstrike that struck the main road towards the main crossing between Lebanon and Syria, generally speaking, people are concerned that the airport could be next, given that this had also happened in 2006, which was the last time Hezbollah and the Israeli military had a war.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the number of paramedics, doctors, medical staff who have been killed just in the last few days, Kareem, and what kind of effect this bombing has had on the hospitals, and what the World Health Organization head, Ghebreyesus, has said about trying to get aid into Beirut right now?

KAREEM CHEHAYEB: Indeed, there have been several cases of paramedics being killed in Israeli strikes, but the number has certainly surged. In this particular escalation, there have been dozens who were killed, whether they were in the middle of an operation or whether they were in their offices. There was a strike in central Beirut, just a few hundred meters from where I am right now, into an office for the Islamic Health Committee, which is Hezbollah’s medical arm, and at least seven paramedics and first responders were killed in that strike. And at a time where evacuations orders have increased, at a time where strikes have intensified, the hospitals are really struggling to keep up with the number of patients. And, of course, you know, medical staff, paramedics, first responders are also struggling a lot to get people out. And this could be — this appears to be a trend going forward in this conflict.

AMY GOODMAN: And what have you been able to find out about Israel using white phosphorus? Explain what it is and where you believe it may have been used.

KAREEM CHEHAYEB: Sure. So, early on in the conflict, you know, Israel was initially accused by residents and human rights groups of using white phosphorus in southern Lebanon, especially in villages along the border, which are very rural. They’re agrarian. There’s lots of greenery and fields.

Now, white phosphorus is — basically, white phosphorus is a very dangerous weapon, where it sort of — it burns all the way to the bone if in contact with human skin. You know, it can cause severe respiratory illnesses, as well, if you inhale too much of it. Now, the concern is that if it’s used in heavily populated areas, it is considered a violation of international law. Now, Israel always says that it uses it as a smokescreen or to — you know, primarily as a smokescreen, not to target civilians or as a weapon of war. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty and other organizations have corroborated information where they have seen that this is not entirely the case. That’s what they concluded.

Now, the conversation months later, just the other day, has sort of come back. In that strike I had told you about just a moment ago where — in central Beirut, that hit that office, and another strike nearby in the southern suburbs, you know, people were talking a lot about unpleasant smells, and state media had reported that there was use of white phosphorus. Now, there is no confirmation of that yet. We had spoken to the health minister, Firass Abiad, who said that they’re in the process of verifying it. There have been no updates on that, but, you know, it would not have been the first time Israel used white phosphorus in Lebanon. But the previous incidents have been in southern Lebanon. But there has been no sort of official confirmation yet, but that’s sort of what’s been reported.

AMY GOODMAN: Kareem, if you could also talk about who Israel is claiming they’re trying to kill right now, the target, Hashem Safieddine, a cousin and presumed successor to the assassinated Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah?

KAREEM CHEHAYEB: Absolutely. So, you know, after Hassan Nasrallah was assassinated, every expert from every think tank and every corner that I spoke to believed that Hashem Safieddine would be his successor. He’s a senior figure in Hezbollah for many years, plays a very important role within the institution. He is a relative. He’s a cousin of Hassan Nasrallah. And his son is married to the daughter of the late senior Iranian General Qassem Soleimani, who was killed in a U.S. airstrike in Iraq in 2020. So he’s very connected to Tehran. He’s very connected to Hezbollah.

It is unclear whether, you know, he survived the strike, whether he was in the building where the strike took place. Hezbollah have not yet commented on it. But if he was targeted and killed or wounded, this follows a certain pattern over the past couple of weeks where the Israeli military, through its strikes, have been targeting senior Hezbollah leaders. And they have targeted senior Hezbollah military leaders and also members within its institution. And this could be a continuation of that pattern, but there’s no information on that.

But it is true that Hashem Safieddine is widely seen as Hassan Nasrallah’s successor. And it is very unclear whether they’re going to pick him or somebody else or when they will make that decision. When the Deputy Secretary General Sheikh Naim Qassem spoke a few days ago, he said that they will make a decision at the soonest possibility. And it’s unclear how they’re going to navigate with the situation, but it is widely seen that if Safieddine was targeted, it’s really unknown who to expect would replace Hassan Nasrallah.

AMY GOODMAN: And now the Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi says he is visiting Lebanon to make clear Iran will always stand with people of Lebanon. Can you talk about the significance of the Iranian foreign minister being in Lebanon right now and of the supreme leader, Iran’s supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, holding the prayers in Tehran, presiding over them publicly for the first time in five years, as he commemorated the Hezbollah leader who was killed by Israel last week?

KAREEM CHEHAYEB: Yeah. So, the Iranian foreign minister has been holding meetings with senior officials, including Prime Minister Najib Mikati, who’s right behind me in this building. And, you know, it appears that, in the words that they’re saying, that Iran is trying to garner international support for Lebanon, trying to pile the pressure diplomatically on Israel. That’s how they’ve been spinning it. And they’ve talked a lot in that sense. And, you know, for them to come at a time like this is certainly interesting. Iranian senior military officials have been killed in Israeli strikes in Lebanon and Syria over the past year. And there were a lot of questions whether the Israeli military would allow his plane to land at Beirut airport.

Now the question really is: What happens behind the scenes? Right? So, the Lebanese government, including allies of Hezbollah, you know, they have been trying to push for a ceasefire and handle this diplomatically. And it’s unclear what that conversation looks like with Iran, as well as their conversations with, you know, namely, the United States and Paris. You know, this also comes not long after Iran met with Saudi officials in Qatar. And it’s unclear whether this indicates that they are trying to work something out or not. You know, Iran has not given a lot of statements. The foreign minister did not give any statements after meeting the prime minister, issued a statement after meeting the speaker of Parliament. And he sort of talked about maintaining support for Lebanon. And there’s a lot of talk about humanitarian aid. It wasn’t anything that indicated it’s going to be a significant shift in this conflict. And so, it appears that whatever changes will happen will be seen on the battlefields in the south or in Beirut.

AMY GOODMAN: And the significance of the death of a Lebanese soldier carrying out a rescue operation in southern Lebanon, another one injured, Kareem, what this means, and the Israeli government saying the U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon should move? How quickly do you see this escalating even further, as we wrap up?

KAREEM CHEHAYEB: Certainly. You know, the Lebanese army announcing that two of its soldiers were killed in Israeli airstrikes in a single day in different instances, and on top of the intensified airstrikes, on top of the calls for dozens of villages and towns to evacuate, including a provincial capital in the south, there’s a lot of concerns in Lebanon about, you know, where this ground incursion could lead to and how long this will last. You know, the public works minister, after talking about the road to the border being bombed, is saying that he is concerned even about now a siege from air, as well, almost hinting that the airport could be a target.

So, you know, things are moving at a very, very fast pace, the displacement, the airstrikes. And it is really unclear what the endgame for Israel is. They say that they want to weaken Hezbollah, they want to create an environment that’s safe for their displaced residents to go back north. But it’s not really clear what that benchmark is, what those objectives look like in practice.

AMY GOODMAN: Kareem Chehayeb, first of all, stay safe. I want to thank you so much for being with us, AP journalist reporting on Lebanon, Syria and Iraq, a journalist for the Associated Press, speaking to us from Lebanon’s capital, Beirut.

As Israel continues its relentless attacks on Gaza, we will go directly to Gaza. Stay with us.