We speak with Maya Berry, the executive director of the Arab American Institute, after she faced racist and hostile questioning from Republicans at Tuesday’s Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, including Senator John Kennedy, who told Berry, “You should hide your head in a bag.” The experience illustrated the very problem of dehumanization the hearing was meant to address, Berry says: “That kind of bigotry and hatred is difficult to hear from anyone, but to actually experience it at a hate crime hearing from a sitting member of this institution was pretty extraordinary.” We also speak with Democratic Congressmember Delia Ramirez of Illinois, who has introduced a resolution to honor 6-year-old Wadea al-Fayoume, a Palestinian American boy stabbed to death in a Chicago suburb last October in an anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian attack. “His horrible bigotry and hate have real consequences in the Arab community and the Palestinian community, in other communities, and it makes us all less safe,” Ramirez says of Kennedy.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: As rights groups warn dehumanizing rhetoric around Israel’s U.S.-backed war on Gaza has put the lives of Muslims and Arabs in the U.S. at risk, we look now at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing Tuesday on the “Tide of Hate Crimes in America.” Committee chair Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois called the hearing. His constituent, Hanan Shaheen, sat in the front row. Her 6-year-old son, Wadea al-Fayoume, was stabbed to death in an anti-Muslim hate crime by her landlord in a Chicago suburb in October. Shaheen herself was also stabbed at least 12 times.
Durbin has introduced a resolution honoring Wadea along with Illinois Congresswoman Delia Ramirez, who will join us in a minute to discuss growing support for the Wadea Act. We’ll also be joined by the Arab American witness at Tuesday’s hearing who faced hostile questions from Republicans, Maya Berry, executive director of the Arab American Institute. But first, let’s go to Republican Senator John Kennedy questioning Berry.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You support Hamas, do you not?
MAYA BERRY: Senator, oddly enough, I’m going to say thank you for that question, because it demonstrates the purpose of our hearing today in a very effective way.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Let’s start first with a yes or no.
MAYA BERRY: Hamas is a foreign terrorist organization that I do not support. But you asking the executive director of the Arab American Institute that question very much puts the focus on the issue of hate in our country.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: OK. Well, I got your answer, and I appreciate it. What is the — you support Hezbollah, too, don’t you?
MAYA BERRY: Again, I find this line of questioning extraordinarily disappointing, Senator.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Is that a no?
MAYA BERRY: That you have —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Or yes?
MAYA BERRY: You have Arab American constituents that you represent —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: But is that a —
MAYA BERRY: — in your great state.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Yes, ma’am, I understand that. But is — my time is limited, and I apologize, but is that a yes or a no?
MAYA BERRY: A yes-or-no question to do I support Hezbollah? The answer is I don’t support violence, whether it’s Hezbollah, Hamas or any other entity that invokes it. So, no, sir.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You can’t bring yourself to say no, can you?
MAYA BERRY: No, I can say no. I can say yes.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: But you haven’t.
MAYA BERRY: What I can say is your line of questioning —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You just can’t bring yourself to do it.
MAYA BERRY: Senator —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Do you support or oppose Iran in their hatred of Jews?
MAYA BERRY: Again, I’m going to emphasize, Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, none of them is going to —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You can’t bring yourself to say no, can you?
MAYA BERRY: This discussion — sir, I don’t support —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: It’s real simple.
MAYA BERRY: Excuse me. I’m going to —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: And —
MAYA BERRY: If I may?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Nah, nah, no!
MAYA BERRY: As a Muslim woman — as a Muslim woman, sir, I’m going to tell you —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: I —
MAYA BERRY: — I do not support Iran. But what I will tell you is that —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You —
MAYA BERRY: — this conversation —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: I’m running out of time.
MAYA BERRY: OK.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: I’m sorry. You —
PROTESTER: Senator Kennedy —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You called our decision —
PROTESTER: [inaudible]
CHAIR: Please.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: — to cut funding —
PROTESTER: [inaudible] Goodbye.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You called our decision to cut funding — well, first, what’s the United Nations Relief and Works Agency?
MAYA BERRY: It’s UNRWA, which is —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Yeah.
MAYA BERRY: — the institution that exists to provide services and aid to the nearly 6 million Palestinian refugees.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: And you called our decision to cut funding for them, quote, “an incredible moral failure,” close quote.
MAYA BERRY: That is absolutely correct. But again, I would suggest that conversation —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: And we did —
MAYA BERRY: — is about foreign policy —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: We did that because nine UNRWA staff members were fired for actually helping Hamas on October 7th. Isn’t that the case?
PROTESTER: [inaudible]
MAYA BERRY: I don’t believe that that’s correct in terms of the —
CHAIR: Audience will please —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Let me ask you one more time: You support Hamas, don’t you?
PROTESTER: [inaudible] dead in Gaza!
MAYA BERRY: Sir?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You support UNRWA and Hamas, don’t you?
MAYA BERRY: Sir?
PROTESTER: [inaudible]
CHAIR: Please.
MAYA BERRY: I think it’s exceptionally disappointing that you’re looking at an Arab American witness before you and saying, “You support Hamas.”
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You know what’s disappointing to me?
MAYA BERRY: I do not support Hamas.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You can’t bring yourself to say —
MAYA BERRY: I do not support Hamas or any —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: — you don’t support UNRWA, you don’t support Hamas, you don’t —
MAYA BERRY: I was very clear on my support for UNRWA.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: — support Hezbollah, and you don’t support Iran.
MAYA BERRY: I oppose —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You should hide your head in a bag.
AMY GOODMAN: “You should hide your head in a bag,” Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana told Maya Berry, executive director of the Arab American Institute, at Tuesday’s Senate hearing on hate crimes.
Maya Berry joins us now in our New York studio. And in the Cannon Rotunda in Washington, D.C., we’re joined by Congressmember Delia Ramirez of Illinois.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Maya Berry, you’re now the head of the Arab American Institute. During 9/11, you were the legislative director of the minority whip, Congressmember David Bonior. You’re well known on Capitol Hill. Can you talk about what Kennedy said to you? And talk about the other two witnesses, as well.
MAYA BERRY: It’s difficult to talk about what Senator Kennedy said to me, because I still, sitting here in front of you, actually do not know what he meant when he said, “Put a bag over your head.” I worry about the senator’s 31,000-plus Arab American constituents and the rest of the constituents he represents from Louisiana. That kind of bigotry and hatred is difficult to hear from anyone, but to actually experience it at a hate crime hearing from a sitting member of this institution was pretty extraordinary.
The hearing itself — but you’re right to point this out — is incredibly important to do. We have been, year after year after year, breaking records for the number of hate crimes in our country, a trajectory that’s increased since the 2015 year, which tied with the 2016 presidential election. And the fact that the hearing that was supposed to cover the issue of hate crime and how to formulate a better response was derailed by a group of senators who chose to have the conversation about a political agenda they wanted to advance with regards to Israel and instead use it as an opportunity to further dehumanize people, it’s not how we fight antisemitism, and it’s certainly not how we fight anti-Arab racism.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Maya Berry, could you speak specifically about the increase in hate crimes from 2023 to 2024, in other words, following the October 7th attacks and then the war, the assault on Gaza?
MAYA BERRY: Yeah. There’s been a sense, obviously, anecdotally and looking at specific news accounts, that there’s been an increase. One of the things that we did in preparation for the hearing is that we actually pulled all of the 2023 data from 27 states plus the District of Columbia. And we did that because the federal data on hate crime has not been released yet for 2023. That won’t be coming out until a bit later.
And we found exactly what we thought, which was that there’s been an extraordinary increase of hate targeting both the Arab American and the Jewish American community: in the case of the Jewish American community, just over a thousand to more than 2,000; in the case of Arab Americans, it went from just over a hundred to 180. All of that is to say, by the way, one of the most important things to understand about hate crime data is the massive underreporting problem that exists. Based on the Bureau of Justice Statistics at the Department of Justice, only about 1% of hate crimes are actually reported. So those numbers tell us that, yes, there’s a significant problem, but it’s significantly worse than that. And then, just to point out, the post-October numbers, that’s where you saw at least half of those crimes.
AMY GOODMAN: And talk about Kenneth Stern, who was another witness, who is director of the Bard Center for the Study of Hate.
MAYA BERRY: Yeah. Professor Stern was there specifically because I think there was an anticipation that this conversation might delve into the idea of debating what antisemitism is or isn’t. He is actually the author of the IHRA Definition, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance Definition of Antisemitism, that he specifically wrote for the purposes of data collection outside of the United States primarily, to provide guidance. The definition is designed and written to introduce the idea of Israel and Israel issues into conflating it with the very real problem of antisemitism that exists. So, the problem has been — it’s we need to talk about antisemitism; we must not conflate it with anti-Israel criticism or criticism of Zionism. And, you know, he spent some considerable time trying to educate the senators on the importance of not doing that and the harm that it can cause to communities.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, what do you think — Maya, what do you think needs to be done in order to make government more responsible? I mean, what the Republicans did, of course, the way they questioned you, was completely outrageous. But even beyond that, you know, taking that out of the picture, what is missing from the way in which the state, the federal government and also state governments, respond to this kind of violence?
MAYA BERRY: I think that’s the question and incredibly important to keep elevating. Part of how policy is set is that you’re asking the right questions and that it’s informed by data. And one of the things that has to happen in this process is actually what happened at the hearing, meaning the convening the hearing to have this discussion so we elevate the issue and the crisis of hate that we’re in. We strongly believe that part of that is requiring mandatory hate crime reporting, which means that every municipality that receives federal funding should have to report on hate crime. We’re not there yet. The introduction of the Khalid Jabara and Heather Heyer NO HATE Act was a vehicle to improve hate crime data collection and reporting. And I think there’s more that can be done in that space. But the point is, we must have our government focus on the actual problem as opposed to distractions from it, which do not advance safety for anyone.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to bring Delia Ramirez into this conversation, who is standing in Congress right now, in Washington, D.C., in the Cannon Rotunda. In the front row of this hearing, your constituent, Senator Durbin’s constituent, since he’s the head of the committee, and he is also the Illinois senator, introduced her, Hanan Shaheen, the mother of Wadea al-Fayoume, the 6-year-old boy who — Palestinian child, who was killed by their landlord. Can you explain what happened then, in October, and what you’ve done in introducing your bill around hate crimes, how the Democrats dealt with this grieving mother, who herself was knifed repeatedly, and how the Republicans dealt with her?
REP. DELIA RAMIREZ: Yeah. Look, I was listening to what Senator Kennedy said, and it really was difficult for me not to have an out-of-body experience in reaction to what he did. Hanan Shaheen and Wadea al-Fayoume were constituents of Congresswoman Underwood, just a few minutes from my district. And when the conversation Senator Dick Durbin and I had about finally having a hearing that actually, since October 7th, talked about the rise of Islamophobia, anti-Palestinian hate and antisemitism and the impact that it has in our communities, it was with Wadea and his mother’s face in mind. And the idea that a hearing that was supposed to be about educating us on what this impact is around our country becoming the perfect example of what elected officials do and how they spew the hate that killed Wadea al-Fayoume was heartbreaking, but also, I think, to Maya’s point, was exactly what we’re talking about.
What Senator Kennedy did in that hearing, the consequences of his horrible bigotry and hate have real consequences in the Arab community and the Palestinian community, in other communities, and it makes us all less safe. The Wadea resolution is about honoring the life of a little boy that was stabbed 26 times by his landlord because Wadea and his mother are Palestinian. And the resolution was about honoring his life and also saying we have to end the bigotry and we have to end the spewing hate and the words that are used by elected officials and the media. That is what this resolution was about. And actually, it’s what inspired Senator Durbin to have this hearing on the rise of hate crimes.
What Senator Kennedy did should have real consequences. Here’s what I’m telling you. You can’t come into the House floor or the Senate chamber without a tie. You have to pay a fine. You can’t use a camera while you’re on the floor. You’ll get fined. But you can treat a witness, treat Maya the way that Kennedy treated Maya, and have no consequences? To me, that is the biggest ethics violation and an example of elected officials not being accountable to their people. And what he did should have consequences. And I’m going to look into what we could be doing to ensure that no elected official use a hearing room to further spew the hate that we’re seeing in the rise of hate crimes around the country.
AMY GOODMAN: As we talk about the issue of hate, Donald Trump said he is heading to Springfield, Ohio, where he and his vice-presidential running mate, now a sitting senator, Ohio Senator JD Vance, have falsely accused the Haitian community of eating pets. It is something that has generated enormous laughter, derision, but, much more importantly, horror, because of what’s happening in the streets of Springfield — state troopers marching through the streets, kids afraid to go to school, bomb threats at schools, at hospitals. You, yourself, Delia Ramirez, are an immigrant, an immigrant from Guatemala. If you can talk about this attack on the immigrant community and what it means, how it’s reverberating for you, as well?
REP. DELIA RAMIREZ: Let me start by saying that what is happening in Springfield, Ohio, is Donald Trump’s fault. All of it. The idea that you make immigrants less than human — which is exactly what his strategy has been the entire time, since he started his campaign eight years ago. This man is intentionally creating ways and using words and accusations to make immigrants less than human — Haitian immigrants, Black immigrants. I mean, if that is not racism and bigotry, and if you can support this man, then it makes me question if you’re a racist and a bigot, as well.
The people of Springfield have said, “Leave us alone.” Haitian immigrants in this town are boosting our economy. Its own mayor, the city manager, the entire community has said, “Enough is enough. You, Donald Trump, is bringing hate to our community. You, Donald Trump, is making us less safe. You, Donald Trump, is impacting our economy,” because now we’re having to spend all this money on safety because of what he did. Shame on Donald Trump. Donald Trump, the last thing he should be doing is going to Springfield, Ohio. What he should be doing is asking himself, “Who am I? And why do I hate people so much?”
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, though I’m not quoting his words directly, he just said in a town hall forum he’ll go to Springfield, but who knows if he’ll make it out? We’re going to leave it there. I want to thank you so much, Illinois Congressmember Delia Ramirez, speaking to us from Washington, D.C., in the Cannon Rotunda. And thank you to Maya Berry, executive director of the Arab American Institute. We thank you for both being with us.
Coming up, we speak to a Burmese genocide scholar about Burma, the latest news there, and his trip to the West Bank. Stay with us. Back in 20 seconds.
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